Curse

jaif · Apr 25, 2009, 01:32 AM // 01:32

I think I'm missing something - lots of builds tout dragon slash, but when I compare the two QB seems to come out better.

Assume a total skill of 15:

DS - Costs 10, 40 points of damage, +5 points adrenaline if you hit.

QB - Costs 5, 40 points of damage, maybe daze affect as well.

So, they both net 5 on a hit, do the same damage, and QB maybe dazes. What am I missing?

-Jeff

Inferno Link · Apr 25, 2009, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaif

I think I'm missing something - lots of builds tout dragon slash, but when I compare the two QB seems to come out better.

Assume a total skill of 15:

DS - Costs 10, 40 points of damage, +5 points adrenaline if you hit.

QB - Costs 5, 40 points of damage, maybe daze affect as well.

So, they both net 5 on a hit, do the same damage, and QB maybe dazes. What am I missing?

-Jeff

D slash is often used with For great Justice or something like that so you can continuously spam it for great DPS. Quivering is often disregarded a lot but it's a pretty useful elite if you ask me and it doesn't receive the credit it should deserve.

jaif · Apr 25, 2009, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Ok, I see that. W/justice it gives you 10 back, and that changes the equation a lot.

Still, with the standard enraging charge + flail combo (in PvE) it's not really that hard getting 5 strikes of endurance.

-Jeff

Elephantaliste · Apr 25, 2009, 01:49 AM // 01:49

when u built adrenaline for DS you can use ur other adrenaline skills, use DS to instantly be able to use them again.

You can't do that with QB but yes, u got the daze condition instead of adrenaline boost.

Inferno Link · Apr 25, 2009, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaif

Ok, I see that. W/justice it gives you 10 back, and that changes the equation a lot.

Still, with the standard enraging charge + flail combo (in PvE) it's not really that hard getting 5 strikes of endurance.

-Jeff

Well you know PvE... Most people like pumping out Continuous D-slashs and 100DPS to win it easily. Also don't forget about <Save yourself!> which people also use with it to be pretty invincible ;p.

Winterclaw · Apr 25, 2009, 02:56 AM // 02:56

You are missing the godmode build. Look in the sticky and you should see what the build is. You can't do the godmode build with QB instead of DS.

Chthon · Apr 25, 2009, 03:37 AM // 03:37

In short, while the two skills give roughly equivalent damage, DSlash also gives you a lot of adrenaline for other skills, most importantly SY!.

_Nihilist_ · Apr 25, 2009, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Godmode:

Warrior/any

Swordsmanship 12+1+1
Strength 12+1

[For Great Justice! (PvE)][Enraging [email protected]][[email protected]][Save Yourselves!][Dragon [email protected]][Brawling Headbutt][Steelfang [email protected]][empty]

While FGJ! is up you can continually spam DSlash, and maintain permanent SY!. You can also knocklock any single target (Monks/High Damage Casters), and even when FGJ! is down, by using DSlash > Brawling Headbutt > Steelfang you can still keep SY! up for most of the fight and recharge the combo, just no DSlash > DSlash > DSlash > SY! > DSlash, etc.

Lux Aeterna · Apr 25, 2009, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quivering blade is fun in pvp, you can tag casters with it the same way as with bull's strike, but really for pvp you shouldn't be using sword at all.

Back when I was a wammo, sometimes I'd hit someone then notice that my attacks interrupted all their spells and I always wondered why that was.

Nowadays I'd like to use it, but axe's 50% more damage to kiters is more tempting.

Shadowfox1125 · Apr 25, 2009, 02:24 PM // 14:24

SY! is what you're missing.

Super Igor · Apr 25, 2009, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaif

I think I'm missing something - lots of builds tout dragon slash, but when I compare the two QB seems to come out better.

Assume a total skill of 15:

DS - Costs 10, 40 points of damage, +5 points adrenaline if you hit.

QB - Costs 5, 40 points of damage, maybe daze affect as well.

So, they both net 5 on a hit, do the same damage, and QB maybe dazes. What am I missing?

-Jeff

reason why people use [Dragon Slash] is:

[save yourselves]

[brawling headbutt]

Hugh Manatee · Apr 27, 2009, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Also, imo if you were to use a sword in PvP [Crippling slash]>[quivering blade]. You get unconditional bleeding and snare, an easy bulls strike, it syncs with gash well, then you pick another +damage attack to smack someone with.

Paul Dawg · Apr 28, 2009, 01:00 AM // 01:00

You don't really need [steelfang slash]. After [brawling headbutt], you should have enough adrenaline for another stroke of [dragon slash], which will give you all the adrenaline you need for yet another cycle regardless of whether you foe is knocked down. When ["for great justice!" (pve)] wears off, there may be a couple of instances where you'll have [steelfang slash] reloaded before [dragon slash] (8 adren vs. 10), but in practice that's so infrequent that you may as well just swap in a different skill instead of [steelfang slash]--like [lion's comfort], [ebon battle standard of honor], [asuran scan], [pain inverter], etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Godmode:

Warrior/any

Swordsmanship 12+1+1
Strength 12+1

[For Great Justice! (PvE)][Enraging [email protected]][[email protected]][Save Yourselves!][Dragon [email protected]][Brawling Headbutt][Steelfang [email protected]][empty]

While FGJ! is up you can continually spam DSlash, and maintain permanent SY!. You can also knocklock any single target (Monks/High Damage Casters), and even when FGJ! is down, by using DSlash > Brawling Headbutt > Steelfang you can still keep SY! up for most of the fight and recharge the combo, just no DSlash > DSlash > DSlash > SY! > DSlash, etc.

_Nihilist_ · Apr 28, 2009, 07:34 AM // 07:34

When [For Great Justice! (PvE)] drops, you need [Steelfang [email protected]] to recharge [Dragon [email protected]] after you've used [Brawling Headbutt] for the KD. Otherwise, it takes too long to rebuild your Adrenaline.

For a longer duration of [FGJ! (PvE)] you can go W/P and bring [Enduring [email protected]] (you can't put points into Leadership) to use preceding "FGJ!". It will increase the duration of "FGJ!" from 20 to 30 seconds, decreasing the downtime between uses from 25 to 15 seconds.

Another point, Paul Dawg, you really shouldn't bring [Ebon Battle Standard of Honor] on a Warrior. The strain on your energy is going to be harsh, and your target is going to blow up fast enough with DSlash spam.

Zodiak · Apr 28, 2009, 01:16 PM // 13:16

How about something more like?

[asuran scan][flail][brawling headbutt][steelfang slash][dragon slash]["save yourselves!"]["for great justice!"]

I know people mentioned Asuran Scan but have not put a build including it. Best part of it in the bar I guess other then for Dragon Slash is for the use of Brawling Headbutt as it is a Touch skill and therefor Armor Ignoring. At max Delver Rank Brawling Headbutt knocks the target down and does 70 Armor Ignoring damage, under Asuran scan that changes to (70 x 1.7) = 119 Armor Ignoring dmg!

I know the bar doesnt include a cancel stance for Flail, You could always take something of the bar out or live with the setback a few seconds between fights or even go with [drunken master]

Paul Dawg · Apr 29, 2009, 03:02 AM // 03:02

I tend to use [pain inverter] as my third PvE-only skill when I do Godmode, but there's already been a whole debate about [pain inverter], and I didn't want to get into that again. I've used all of the PvE-only skills that I listed and think they're all fine. I've certainly never found that [ebon battle standard of honor] drains my energy, and especially with minions, it's a superb skill. (The only other e-skills I bring are ["for great justice!" (pve)] and [enraging charge]--so how could I run out of energy?)

My usual Godmode bar is:

["for great justice!" (pve)][enraging charge][flail][dragon slash]["save yourselves!" (luxon)][brawling headbutt][pain inverter][lion's comfort]

For hero-henching, I think it's the best Godmode variant possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Another point, Paul Dawg, you really shouldn't bring [Ebon Battle Standard of Honor] on a Warrior. The strain on your energy is going to be harsh, and your target is going to blow up fast enough with DSlash spam.

_Nihilist_ · Apr 29, 2009, 03:52 AM // 03:52

The debate on [Pain Inverter] is that it is a Reactive Hex, which means you can't increase its damage output by optimising your team, but that's more for Casters to worry about, since they are the ones that have skills that can outperform PI. Carrying it on a Warrior is fine, especially if you are the only Human player.

Hugh Manatee · Apr 29, 2009, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Going off topic a little, you can set a caster hero to /P and have it take [Inspirational Speech] at about 8 motivation. You have to micro it between fights but in the middle of the battle the hero throws it at you automatically. It's great to go around fully charged, Burn SY! right at the start of the fight, one strike later murderize something. If it's an N/P you get him to put withering aura on you, and you put asuran scan on the target, you make for an easy warrior based discordway(works better with hammers as you can use [auspicious blow] to get juice easy for scan and [crude swing] for AoE weakness). I also kinda like Rt/P or second an N/rt with Sundering weapon, you see some huge numbers.

Paul Dawg · May 01, 2009, 12:17 AM // 00:17

That's PvP thinking. In PvE, where foes' behavior is extremely predictable, I don't think it matters very much if a hex is reactive as long as it's EFFECTIVE. The AI is horrible at knowing to avoid casting AoE spells when it's hexed with [pain inverter]; in fact, as far as I can tell, [pain inverter] doesn't affect their behavior at all. So slap it on and watch them blow themselves up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

The debate on [pain inverter] is that it is a Reactive Hex.

Neo Atomisk · May 01, 2009, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiak

I know people mentioned Asuran Scan but have not put a build including it. Best part of it in the bar I guess other then for Dragon Slash is for the use of Brawling Headbutt as it is a Touch skill and therefor Armor Ignoring. At max Delver Rank Brawling Headbutt knocks the target down and does 70 Armor Ignoring damage, under Asuran scan that changes to (70 x 1.7) = 119 Armor Ignoring dmg!

[Asuran Scan]'s 1.75x multiplier only works with ATTACKS. [Brawling Headbutt] is a touch SKILL, therefore, the two are not compatible.